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squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Brawler Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:21 am | |
| This is my idea for a bare-handed fighter that can placate the people who want a Monk class but can't wait for the official release. Calling it something other than Monk allows it to still be playable once the official Monk is out without confusion. It also gives us more leeway on what to do with the class. So let's get started. Brawler"I like to let my fists do the talking."Role: Striker. You weave in and out of combat with fists flying, doing massive damage to singular foes and unleashing debilitating effects. Power Source: Martial. You're an expert at hand-to-hand combat through extensive training, intensive skill, and natural talent. Key Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom Armor Proficiency: Cloth. Weapon Proficiencies: simple melee, simple ranged. Bonus to Defenses: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score Hit Points per Level: 5 Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier Trained Skills:: From the class skills list below, choose four trained skills at 1st level. Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Endurance (Con), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis). (Maybe Streetwise for the street thug/tavern brawler feel?) Build Options: Bruising brawler, tumbling brawler. A little bit of fluff. You could be: a tavern brawler, a monk, a martial artist, or a bare-knuckles fighter. Creating a BrawlerThe brawler has two basic builds available: the brusing brawler and the tumbling brawler. All brawlers rely on Dexterity to some extent; some brawlers rely on Strength for their attacks while other brawlers apply Wisdom to their attack's effects. Bruising BrawlerThe bruising brawler concentrates on using punches, jabs, kicks, and a variety of other strikes to be in the opponent's face and take it down. You don't worry about being too fancy; you just get in their and wail. To achieve this build, make Strength your primary score, as you'll need it to land your attacks and deal extra damage. Make Dexterity your secondary score and Wisdom your tertiary score. They'll aid your powers and you need them for your defenses anyway. Tumbling BrawlerWith this build, you concentrate on grappling, movement effects, and other aspects of hand-to-hand fighting. You're a more technical, effects-oriented brawler. To optimize for this build, make Dexterity your highest score, as you'll need it to land your specialized attacks. Make Wisdom your secondary score since it will help you with the effects of your attacks, and make Strength your tertiary score so you can pick up some powers from the bruising brawler build; you need it for a good Fortitude defense, anyway. Class FeaturesFollow-up BlowOnce per round when you successfully hit with an attack, you may spend a minor action immediately to deal damage to the foe that you hit with the attack. The damage dealt is based on your level. | Code: | Level Extra Damage 1st-10th +1d6 11th-20th +2d6 21st-30th +3d6
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Improved Unarmed Combat You treat your unarmed strike as a weapon with a +3 proficiency bonus and 1d8 damage.
Brawler's Strike Starting at 2nd level and beyond, when you make an attack unarmed, you gain an enhancement bonus to your attack rolls and deal extra damage on critical hits based on your level.
| Code: | Level Extra Critical Damage Enhancement Bonus 2nd - 5th +1d6 +1 6th - 10th +2d6 +2 11th - 15th +3d6 +3 16th - 20th +4d6 +4 21st - 25th +5d6 +5 26th - 30th +6d6 +6
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At-Will Powers
Pummel - Brawler Attack 1 You unleash the fury of your fists on your opponent. At-Will * Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be unarmed. Targets: One or two creatures. Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks
Hit: 1[W] damage per attack.
Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level.
Weakening Blow - Brawler Attack 1 You use your knowledge of the human body to land a strike that really hurts your foe. At-Will * Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike. Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.
Disorienting Blow - Brawler Attack 1 You land a blow that unbalances your foe, causing him to stumble backwards. At-Will * Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike. Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] damage, and you push the target 1 square if it is your size, smaller than you, or one size category larger. You can shift after the attack.
Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level.
Countering Blow - Brawler Attack 1 You attack with a flourish that leaves your foe open to a counterattack should he strike you. At-Will * Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike. Target: One creature Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. If the target attacks you before the start of your next turn, you make your counterattack against the target as an immediate interrupt: a Dexterity vs. AC attack that deals 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier and counterattack to 2[W] + Dexterity modifier at 21st level.
Level 1 Encounter Powers
Flurry of Fists - Brawler Attack 1 In a blur, you strike out rapidly with your fists, hitting every foe that surrounds you. Encounter <> Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Close burst 1 Requirement: You must be unarmed. Target: Each enemy in the burst you can see. Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Sweeping Kick - Brawler Attack 1 Your foe doesn't see it coming when you sweep your leg beneath your enemy's guard and cause him to fall down. Encounter <> Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must use an unarmed strike. Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and you knock the target prone.
Light Toss - Brawler Attack 1 After engaging your foe you knock her back into the 10-foot pit behind her. Encounter <> Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must use an unarmed strike. Target: One creature. Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and you slide the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Double the Pain - Brawler Attack 1 You concentrate your strikes on one foe and you make sure he feels it. Encounter <> Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be unarmed. Target: One creature Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks.
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. If both attacks hit, add your Dexterity modifier to the damage.
Level 1 Daily Powers
Unrelenting - Brawler Attack 1 You unleash a barrage of fists on your enemy, knocking him back and dazing him. Daily <> Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be unarmed. Target: One creature Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] damage and you slide the target 1 square. Effect: You shift 1 square and make a secondary attack against the target.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Feel the Pain - Brawler Attack 1 You swiftly cripple your enemy. Daily <> Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must use an unarmed strike. Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage and the target is slowed and weakened (save ends both). Miss: Half damage, and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Agile Throw - Brawler Attack 1 After grappling with your foe you throw him to the ground. Daily <> Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be unarmed. Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 2[W] damage and you slide the target a number of square equal to your Wisdom modifier. The target is prone in that square. Miss: Half damage, and the target is not moved or knocked prone.
Distracting Blow - Brawler Attack 1 You come in with a wild, glancing blow, only to let the enemy know that your other fist is in his gut. Daily <> Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be unarmed. Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and make a secondary attack.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Level 2 Utility Powers
Herculean Feat - Brawler Utility 2 You bring forth an inner reserve of strength to accomplish an amazing feat. Daily <> Martial Minor Action - Personal
Effect: You gain a +4 power bonus to Athletics checks until the end of the encounter.
Grapple Expert - Brawler Utility 2 You're an expert at grappling opponents, and this fool is no different. Encounter <> Martial Minor Action - Personal
Effect: You gain a +4 power bonus grab attempts until the start of your next turn.
Last edited by squarecircle on Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:12 am; edited 18 times in total (Reason for editing : added Agile Throw) |
|  | | Aluman Admin
Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:33 am | |
| Strikers get some kind of damage thing If its a uncomomng thing (CA) then +2 +3 +5 d6 Common (Curse/Quarry) +1 +2 +3 d6 |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:41 am | |
| Right, right, cheerio then. Let's try to think of something different. The Curse/Quarry effect seems obvious. What else can we do to grant extra damage without being redundant? I'd like some kind of uncommon thing, but different than CA. Any ideas? Then again we could make the Common thing key off of something else. Maybe some kind of "automatic counterattack" for the first time you get hit each round? Of course whether that's common or uncommon will vary with the DM, and a more tactical DM might not have your character struck often so the monsters don't get hit (which will still aid your job as a striker, of course, since the defender should be taking all the hits). Semi-common? +1 +2 +3 d8? |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:59 am | |
| Also, as a brawler, the class should get extra damage for unarmed attacks, and a proficiency bonus. It doesn't have to be stated that way, maybe just a class feature that gives a +3 attack bonus for attacking unarmed, and an additional +1 every 5 levels. Oh I just thought of something. Since the brawler, being unarmed, isn't getting magical crits, should we just give them extra crit damage for their extra damage? Then again crits only happen 5% of each attack, that's less common than CA, really. Still they need something to make up for the fact that they aren't using magical weapons. |
|  | | Aluman Admin
Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:52 pm | |
| My basic opinion is (with unarmed attacks) it becomes a +3 prof bonus and can be treated as light blade or flail for purposes of feats and powers. Our two paths could be a striker/striker and striker/defendeer. The striker/striker uses light blades and gets a bonus based on it. The striker/defender gets a bonus to speed and can make an extra OA/round (or something), and treats their unarmed as Flails. For the damage how about the target being prone? There are a lot of powers that knock people prone, but right now all it does is take a movement action away the next turn. |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:30 pm | |
| Well, one, it's kind of weird to grant extra damage strictly on the basis of whether or not a target is prone. Prone also grants combat advantage, remember. The rogue can get his sneak attack damage when a target is prone because of the CA. So going strictly off of being prone means the extra damage would be even less common than the rogue's SA. I don't know about making unarmed attacks count as light blades or flails. Why not make our own unarmed feats to simulate these? You're right though that we need two builds. Hm, I'm really not sure. |
|  | | Aluman Admin
Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:45 am | |
| If we make feats I still want them to make unarmed attacks work as normal weapons. Maybe we can have handwraps that count as a weapon slot to allow magic unarmed attacks too? Otherwise they are losing out on damage and hit bonus (as you have already said). |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:53 am | |
| The problem I have with making handwraps count as a weapon is that it's too "homebrew-ish" and doesn't come off as "professional." If we want to make a name for ourselves we should strive to exhibit a sense of professionalism. Try to think in terms of, how would a more "professional" 3pp (e.g. Paizo) approach this? |
|  | | Aluman Admin
Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:09 am | |
| Didn't they have hand wraps in 3.5? Just state that hand wraps are a weapon and can be enchanted as normal, this way if Wizards does things diffrently ours still fits in. I think really giving them a bump in damage every few levels would be less proffesional, as nothing would technically stop paragon multiclassing and having a class with a weapon that its power gets both the boost to damage and the enchantment. |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:57 am | |
| But the damage boost would only apply when unarmed, like monks were in 3.5. Same with the bonus to-hit. It just seems like the hand-wraps idea is contrived, and forces all brawlers to use hand-wraps, which is weird. Just think of it like the two-blade ranger, who gets a cool thing no one else does: the ability to wield a non off-hand weapon in his off-hand. Brawlers would get bonus to damage when fighting unarmed. |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | |  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:43 pm | |
| Updated. I know I make a lot of Monk references, but I actually like to think of this class as a viable alternative to the Monk, rather than a Monk replacement. Keep that in mind when making suggestions-- we do not have to try to perfectly replicate that "Monk" feel because we really are creating our own class. I actually imagine more of a street brawler or "tavern brawler" archetype. Some Powers ideas: Four-fold Assault (came up together with Aluman) Monk Attack 29?? 3 attacks, against AC, Ref, and Fort respectively. 2[W] damage each. Then a final attack against Will to make the target weakened/dazed/some other effect. Throw Mid-level attack power Grab an adjacent enemy (Str vs. Fort?) then throw him into another enemy within [10?] squares (another attack?) knocking both targets prone (or just the initial target if the second attack failed). First target would land in an adjacent square next to the secondary target. Distracting BlowYou come in with a wild, glancing blow, only to let the enemy know that your other fist is in his gut.Dex vs. AC Hit: Dexterity modifier damage, and make a secondary attack: Secondary attack: Str vs. Fort Hit: 2[w] + Str mod damage. A lot of Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue powers could easily be re-flavored to fit the Brawler. |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:30 am | |
| I was wondering if we should grant some kind of benefit dependent on which build you go for, but I don't think it's necessary. Sure, many classes do, but flipping through the PHB, neither the cleric nor paladin offer specific advantages for choosing one build over another. |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:37 pm | |
| I like the concept behind weakening blow-- that it targets fortitude and deals wisdom mod damage-- but it seems to be too defender-ish. Any ideas on how to striker-fy it? A couple of ideas that came to me: Weakening Blow - Brawler Attack 1You use your knowledge of the human body to land an attack that weakens your foe.At-Will * Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike. Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude Hit: Deal damage equal to your Wisdom modifier, and the target makes an immediate saving throw; if it fails, it grants combat advantage to all allies within 10 squares of it until the end of your next turn. Weakening Blow - Brawler Attack 1You use your knowledge of the human body to land a strike that really hurts your foe.At-Will * Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee weapon Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike. Target: One creature Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage. Increase damage to 2[W] + Wisdom modifier at 21st level. |
|  | | squarecircle Admin

Posts: 73 Join date: 2008-08-25 Age: 26 Location: Kansas City
 | Subject: Re: Brawler Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:08 pm | |
| Updated. Wondering if the powers steal too much from other at-wills in the game. I know it's okay for that to happen a little bit (look at Careful Attack and Sure Strike) but these may be even less unique. Any ideas? I was thinking earlier of the difference between a Brawler and a Monk. Sure, the Brawler can fill in for a Monk concept, but I think the Brawler can apply more broadly to other concepts as well. Take Hercules, for example. Sure, in some stories Hercules uses a sword, but in others, he's bare-fisted. Hercules is by no means some kind of esoteric, monastic unarmed monk/martial artist. He's a bruiser. That doesn't mean he doesn't have any tact or is dumb as bricks, but he's not the monk archetype, and Brawler conceptually fits him better. Then that inspired an idea for a Daily Utility power. Herculean Feat - Brawler Utility 2 You bring forth an inner reserve of strength to accomplish an amazing feat of strength.Daily <> Martial Minor Action - Personal Effect: You gain a +4 power bonus to Athletics checks until the end of the encounter. |
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