Brawler

Aluman · Admin Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25

squarecircle wrote:

I like the concept behind weakening blow-- that it targets fortitude and deals wisdom mod damage-- but it seems to be too defender-ish. Any ideas on how to striker-fy it?

A couple of ideas that came to me:

Weakening Blow - Brawler Attack 1
You use your knowledge of the human body to land an attack that weakens your foe.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude

Hit: Deal damage equal to your Wisdom modifier, and the target makes an immediate saving throw; if it fails, it grants combat advantage to all allies within 10 squares of it until the end of your next turn.

How about 1[w] and the rest, make it a little different from the Rogue power (I think I have seen one fairly close to this anyway) its based on

Quote:

Weakening Blow - Brawler Attack 1
You use your knowledge of the human body to land a strike that really hurts your foe.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude

Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.

Increase damage to 2[W] + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.

It reaalllyy should be 1[w]+Dex modifier damage, as Wisdom is the tertiary so should drive like the extras on powers, not the damage on at wills.

Aluman · Admin Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25

Quote:

Disorienting Blow - Brawler Attack 1
You land a blow that unbalances your foe, causing him to stumble backwards.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] damage, and you push the target 1 square if it is your size, smaller than you, or one size category larger. You can shift after the attack.

Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level.

Hmm this one is like Tide of Iron, and apporiate I like

Quote:

Countering Blow - Brawler Attack 1
You attack with a flourish that leaves your foe open to a counterattack should he strike you.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be using an unarmed strike.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. If the target attacks you before the start of your next turn, you make your counterattack against the target as an immediate interrupt: a Dexterity vs. AC attack that deals 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.

Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier and counterattack to 2[W] + Dexterity modifier at 21st level.

This one is fairly unique. but I like

Quote:

Level 1 Encounter Powers

Flurry of Fists - Brawler Attack 1
In a blur, you strike out rapidly with your fists, hitting every foe that surrounds you.
Encounter <> Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Close burst 1
Requirement: You must be unarmed.
Target: Each enemy in the burst you can see.
Attack: Strength vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

This seems a bit powerful...but at the same time might be ok, I don't know...maybe Paranoid on my part it might be ok.

Quote:

Sweeping Kick - Brawler Attack 1
Your foe doesn't see it coming when you sweep your leg beneath your enemy's guard and cause him to fall down.
Encounter <> Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must use an unarmed strike.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and you knock the target prone.

Like this one.

Quote:

Light Toss - Brawler Attack 1
After engaging your foe you knock her back into the 10-foot pit behind her.
Encounter <> Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must use an unarmed strike.
Target: One creature.
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex

Hit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and you slide the target a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier.

This one seems balanced too, but maybe have it be Dex/AC instead of Dex/Ref?

Quote:

Double the Pain - Brawler Attack 1
You concentrate your strikes on one foe and you make sure he feels it.
Encounter <> Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be unarmed.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex, two attacks.

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

This one really should be Strength v AC, as its just plain damage.

Quote:

Level 1 Daily Powers

Unrelenting - Brawler Attack 1
You unleash a barrage of fists on your enemy, knocking him back and dazing him.
Daily <> Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be unarmed.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC

Hit: 1[W] damage and you slide the target 1 square.
Effect: You shift 1 square and make a secondary attack against the target.

Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.

Seems balanced to me.

Quote:

Feel the Pain - Brawler Attack 1
You swiftly cripple your enemy.
Daily <> Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee weapon
Requirement: You must use an unarmed strike.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC

Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage and the target is slowed and weakened (save ends both).
Miss: Half damage, and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.

Seems pretty balanced

Quote:

Level 2 Utility Powers

Herculean Feat - Brawler Utility 2
You bring forth an inner reserve of strength to accomplish an amazing feat.
Daily <> Martial
Minor Action - Personal

Effect: You gain a +4 power bonus to Athletics checks until the end of the encounter.

Grapple Expert - Brawler Utility 2
You're an expert at grappling opponents, and this fool is no different.
Encounter <> Martial
Minor Action - Personal

Effect: You gain a +4 power bonus grab attempts until the start of your next turn.

The last one might be a tad powerful...I don't know though.

squarecircle · Subject: Re: Brawler Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:20 pm

Heh, those powers aren't all that unique because I'm not very imaginitive. All I did was flip through currently existing powers in the book and tried to come up with my own, or failing that (which I often did) copied one with slight modifications.

Disorienting Blow
You're right, it's like Tide of Iron. It does slightly less damage, but the shift isn't restricted to the square the target occupied (you could shift backwards, for instance, and put 2 squares of distance between you and the enemy).

Countering Blow
It's not that unique. It's just like the Rogue's Riposte Strike, but swap the Str-based and Dex-based bits.

Flurry of Fists
It's actually the Ranger's Dire Wolverine Strike. It's not even modified, except the requirement is you must be unarmed instead of wielding two weapons.

Sweeping Kick
It's exactly like the Fighter's Spinning Sweep.

Light Toss
This is just the Rogue's Positioning Strike, which also targets Reflex.

Double the Pain
Yeah, you're probably right, but then it's too weak, because it'd only barely be better than Twin Strike. I used the Ranger's Two-Fanged Strike for inspiration on this one-- should I make it target AC and add Dex damage if both attacks hit?

Unrelenting
Yeah, I was comparing to Fighter/Rogue/Ranger powers. It doesn't take from a specific one, since they all have really similar ones like this, just does some slightly different effects.

Grapple Expert
Any suggestions, then? I feel like if I lower the bonus or make it a Daily then it's too weak. I don't think grabs are particularly powerful and this might not get used every encounter.

Aluman · Admin Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25

Well, lets look at what grabing someone provides:
Immobilization (Encounter level ability)
Moving of the opponent on an attack check (strength v Fortitude)

So how about a +4 to moving opponents after grabbing them and to the grab check for the encounter 1/day? It ups its over power (+4 to grab checks for an encounter) while still forcing tatical use of it.

squarecircle · Subject: Re: Brawler Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:30 pm

Okay there need to be plenty of powers that make that secondary ability score useful, and I need to choose a pattern for it.

I've been doing a pattern like this:

At each level where you can select a power, one will use only the primary ability score for each build, and one will use both the primary and secondary score for each build. So it looks like:

Power 1: Strength-only
Power 2: Strength, secondary Dex effect.
Power 3: Dex only.
Power 4: Dex, secondary Wis effect.

This seems to be the pattern the Ranger and Rogue follow. However, there's a second option, one the Warlock uses I've noticed:

At levels 1, 3, 7, 13, 17, 23, and 27, have all powers utilize the secondary ability score.

squarecircle · Subject: Re: Brawler Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:36 pm

I think I should keep Weakening Blow the way I have it. Sure, it's weaker than the Rogue at-will that targets Reflex by the looks of it, but Fortitude is usually an easier defense to target, isn't it? I think that makes up for the fact that you rely on a secondary ability score for the damage, and it keeps the pattern I have going:

At-Will 1: Str only (Pummel)
At-Will 2: Str, w/Dex effect (Countering Blow)
At-Will 3: Dex only (Disorienting Blow)
At-Will 4: Dex, w/Wis effect (Weakening Blow)

squarecircle · Subject: Re: Brawler Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:49 am

Is this underpowered/overpowered?

Nimble Feet - Brawler Utility 2
You switch into a stance that lets you easily move away from your foes as their strikes fail to connect.
Daily <> Martial, Stance
Minor Action - Personal

Effect: When you are missed by a melee attack, you may shift 1 square.

squarecircle · Subject: Re: Brawler Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:55 am

Here's an idea.

I can make Stances particularly important to the Brawler, so that every time you can pick a Utility Power, at least 2 of them will be new Stances.

Eh?

Aluman · Admin Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25

squarecircle wrote:

I think I should keep Weakening Blow the way I have it. Sure, it's weaker than the Rogue at-will that targets Reflex by the looks of it, but Fortitude is usually an easier defense to target, isn't it? I think that makes up for the fact that you rely on a secondary ability score for the damage, and it keeps the pattern I have going:

Depends on what you are targeting. Will is undoubtable the best post level 5, after that if you are fighting controllers/lurkers/skirms - Fort, Soliders/brutes/otherthing Reflex.

squarecircle · Subject: Re: Brawler Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:53 pm

Came across this: http://abutterflydreaming.com/4e-monk-project/

Looks like its the same as one of the monks on the d&d boards, but "updated."

Seems really overpowered to me, but posting a link so that I can come back and maybe get inspired for some power ideas of my own (not nearly as overpowered as those, of course).

squarecircle · Subject: Re: Brawler Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:42 pm

Btw, just as an example of what a finished product by us might look like, I threw this together:
http://www.kickitcafe.com/20h/BrawlerPreview.pdf

Lance, if you're reading this, any chance you can give us some art for that so I don't have to use Sagat?

Aluman · Admin Posts: 45 Join date: 2008-08-25

I like it. The layout anyway, the legalesse we need stuff Wink

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